My father-in-law asked an interesting question. Why are there no Sockeye, Chum, or Pink salmon jacks?

Bob sent him an answer, but I am wondering what other folks think.

Thanks in advance.

Andy

heh dogfish, in response to i don't know jack, check out this site http://www.twistedhumor.com/program_files/KnowJackSchitt.swf

That is interesting. I am curios about the answer.

DF,

Good question. I can't think of any particular reason for there not being jack sockeye or chum, which normally mature at age 4, with some 3 and 5 year olds. Jacks are usually 2 year old coho or chinook. In that case one might say all pinks are jacks (or not) because pinks are 2 years old at maturity. In order for a pink to return as a jack, I guess it would have to return at age 1.

Hey, I thought of a possible reason. Pinks, chum, and sockeye TYPICALLY make a migration circuit that is far off shore compared to chinook and coho, and maybe they can't get from where they are in the middle of the ocean to their natal streams when they are age 1 or 2? Ah, but there are jack steelhead, and they have similar far off shore migrations, so maybe that hypothesis doesn't work. Or maybe it does because steelhead migrations stay farther north (cooler water) than pink and chum.

Keep those thinking caps on boys and girls. Curious minds want to know.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Ive seen a Jack Sockey on Kodiak.

Here is my dad's answer....
Because that is just the way it is, now shut up and fish.

Here is my pastor's answer...
Because God made them that way.

Here is my answer....
Just because we ain't seen em don't mean they aren't there! Catch one and we will find out. <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

Salmo,

Boy have you been the busy boy today!!!

I too would like to know the answer to this one!

Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Let me give this a shot. All salmon species can have jacks. Pinks are the only one's who almost never have jacks, but chum and sockeye are not far behind them them in infrequency. Pinks are the most specialized (ie: highly evolved) of the Onchorhynchus genus, cutthroat are the least. In order, from least to most, cutts, steelhead, chinook, coho, sockeye, chum, and pink (these are just the one's you see around here, there are some more worldwide). Or approximately that way, I don't have the reference material in front of me. Anyway, as a species specializes it develops fewer trajectories. Pinks are so specialized they have developed only one trajectory, and even gone beyond the others to develop two year cycles. They also spawn only once, as do the other Onchorhyncus that we call salmon, another specilization. Cutts on the other hand can spawn multiple times, don't have to each year, can migrate long distances or not at all - basically they try everything. You don't even think of a cutthroat jack but they try that too. Steelhead do much the same things - resident rainbows are steelhead with stay-at-home tendencies, but their genes are the same as steelhead and their offspring may be anadromous as well as resident. And steelhead can stay in the ocean 1 to 3 years, maybe more, like chinook, and have jack trajectories like chinook. Chinook have dropped off the residualization trajectory, however, although they have the long ocean residence trajectory, even longer than steelhead. Steelhead also have either one or two year freshwater residence, and as do coho but less frequently. Chinook have both 0 and 1 year freshwater residence, but a year longer ocean residence, on balance similar in age to steelhead. All these also produce jacks, so that generations can crossbreed. But once you get into sockeye more trajectories fall off - they pretty much always reside in a lake for 1 year, occasionally 2, and yes, because of that there may be a jack look alike, but it will be a 2 lake fish that hits the salt one summer and returns. Chum never do this, instead migrating instantly to the ocean upon emergence and stay in the ocean 3-4 years, except the odd sport that comes back as a two year old jack (yep, seen scales off of one of these). Now the pink has developed so far as to have major cycles odd years, minor cycles even years. So they are all two year olds. However, very occasionally the two years will cross over - sometimes a pink stays out 3 years and sometimes comes back after one. This is so nobody gets completely inbred. The one salt pink happens pretty rarely, however, and the odds of seeing one of these in your angling career are slim to none.

Disclaimer: Some of this is theory based on a bunch of other theories loosely based on science

Which way did he go?......

GEE! Thanks Spawnout, now are there any jacks?

Herm

Spawnout

Very good reply, but I thought that Chinook can still form a resident population when they become inadvertently landlocked?

Sort of like how sockeye become kokanee.

What do you call a land locked Chinook?
<img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

My theory...and it is just that...my theory!!

Anyways...I have alwayys been under the impression that the task of jacks has been to be sort of safety net to the true adult population in case there is some sort of natural disaster or other unexpected and negative enviromental condition to hit a population.

Because pinks, chum and sockeye spawn in such great numbers and during a more concentrated period, the need for jacks is minimized because there are enough adult male fish around to act as a safety net.

Coho and chinook do not spawn in the large concentrated numbers that the other aforementioned species do and thus it is neccasary for these populations to have a safety net.

I also believe that the operational sex ratio (males:females) is higher in sockeye, chum and pinks and thus there maybe adult males doing the same job that chinook and coho jacks do.

From what my father-in-law was thinking, he surmised this. Yes, chums head right out into the salt as soon as the hatch. Pinks do somewhat the same, but maybe not quite so fast. Sockeye can hang out in lakes for a year or so, while coho and chinook lead pretty similar lives, compare to the lives of the other three. They hang out in the river for a while, then decide to go to salt.

I may be horribly wrong, so feel free to dorrect me.

Because Pinks, Sockeyes, and Chums eat EXACTLY the same amount of calories each day. They use to have jacks but the jacks got teased and the elder fish thought that the jacks would go on a rampage at the fish school. That's when it became a law for no sockeyes, pinks, or chums to be jacks anymore.

All species except pinks and chum do just fine landlocked and can reproduce successfully in a totally freshwater system, although chinook, coho, and of course sockeye (kokanee) generally need a lake. Cutthroat and rainbow (steelhead) choose freshwater trajectories purposefully. Chums and pinks, though, are too specialized and must enter saltwater shortly after emerging or die.

I have seen several jack Sockeye in the Cedar River this year(No I'm not fishing in thier, well not really) The only problem with calling these small sockeye jacks is that they could also be Kokanee spawning out of Lake WA, as we have also found jills? Did anybody fishing Sockeye in the lake this past summer catch any jacks/Kokanee? What about trout fishing, does anyone catch them.

I have also seen a Chum jack at the Whatcom creek hatchery back in 97, it was about 45 cm long or so, but that is the only one.

As for reasons, , Salmo had some good ones. But I also have seen Chum smolts in local saltwater bays in August and they were as large as 13 cm, could thier be a resident Chum?

NEN

I was under the impression that jacks were not able to spawn. That they were imature salmon.

And Never Enough Nookie Please measure your fish in English. As I'm too stupid to know metrics.

Jim,
Sorry, its a habit.
And your not stupid for not knowing the Metric system, but our schools for not teaching and enforceing the Metric system, back to the point.
.394 inches per cm.
40 cm = 15.76 inches
13 cm = 5.1 in

Almost forgot that Jacks are not really sexually immature, and on the the other hand are very important to the spawning dance. They act as sattalite males, meaning thier size allows them to sneak in unnoticed by larger males and get thier genetics in with his and hers durring the act. This way if the male is infertile or somehow related to the female, you have two sets of sperm.

NEN

What you just said about sneaking in and also trying to spawn made me think about what I saw on the idiot box(tv). They had show on about salmon spawning and they showed little natives sneaking in and doing the very same thing. Trying to extend their blood lines.